How ‘Jiverly Wong’ is a Vietnamese name
April 4th, 2009The man who allegedly massacred 13 people at a New York community service center 
has been identified as a Vietnamese immigrant - prompting some people to scratch their heads, “How’s Jiverly Wong (pictured) a Vietnamese name?”
If that’s the question in your mind, you’ve come to the right place.
The key to understanding the 41-year-old’s name is in the spelling his father uses, Henry Voong.
That is a typical Vietnamese spelling of a name that’s very common in the Nùng ethnic group. The Nung are a proud people whose living area spans the inland Southeast Asia and overlaps Vietnam, Laos, Thailand and China. A loose analogy may be to the Kurds in the Middle East, who are numerous and live in a large area but (at least until recently) have never had their own independent nation.
Believed to have originated in current-day Thailand, the majority of this ethnicity now live in Guangxi, China. Because they are so spread out, there are some Nung who think of themselves as Chinese, or as Laotian, or as Vietnamese - in addition to considering themselves Nung.
The name Voòng is the common Vietnamese spelling for the same family name that is spelled Vang by Nung living in Laos (same spelling as in General Vang Pao but Vang Pao is Hmong), Wong in Cantonese Chinese, or Wang in Mandarin Chinese.
Which indicates that Jiverly Wong, who also used the name Jiverly Voong, may be a Nung from Vietnam.
A note on pronunciation: The double-o in Voòng is rare in Vietnamese. The Bolsavik only knows of two words with that spelling: boong (the deck of a boat) and xoong (a pot that you cook with). The sound “oong” in Vietnamese is used to denote the open “ong” as in the English “long” or “strong” where your mouth is open after saying it. The Vietnamese “ong” as in ong (a bee), Long (the first name), Phong (the first name), etc. ends with your mouth closed.
Tags: Viet accused
April 4th, 2009 at 7:09 pm
According to AP news, Jiverly Wong is a Vietnamese-Chinese-American. He was born in Vietnam, but his parents are ethically Chinese-Vietnamese. I think Voong is a mispelling of “Vuong”??
Anyway, I am so mad that another crazy Asian dude is a mass murderer.
Why?!
April 4th, 2009 at 8:07 pm
Mass murderers come from all ethnic backgrounds and Asians are no exception. Behind each horrific act usually lies a very sad story on the part of the person who commited it. I am not trying to defense Voong or any thing but this might be also the time to think about how we as a society have treated certain individuals that we consider “misfits”. Troubles start with schoolyard bullying, discrimination based on race, sexual orientation, etc And then there are people who are medically depressed or just simply crazy. What a tragedy!
April 4th, 2009 at 8:10 pm
Really good post, extremely informative.
Also, thanks for posting an entry about this unfortunate incident. This blog needs to cover all important, relevant news stories in the Vietnamese community. That means the good news as well as the bad news (and everything in between)
April 4th, 2009 at 9:59 pm
Thanks the Bolsavik for a great research on the “Voòng” family name. I thought this man belongs to the “Hmong” ethnic minority until I learned from from this article that he could be a Nùng.
It’s heart broken to see so many mass murderings in the US in the last few weeks, but I’m not surprise. Easy access to powerful guns (thanks to NRA) has made the wanton killing of a large number of unresisting human beings an easier task.
A few years ago, after one of the first mass murder on a college campus, I correctly predicted that thanks to the liberal gun law in the US, this kind of bloody massacre would happen again and again, and it would happen often enough to become a social norm. Human being has the tendency to learn and repeat others’ bad habits. Mass slaughter indiscriminately has become another option for a depressed person.
It’s very sad and very scary to realize that in the US, in the last few weeks, we heard about mass slaughters in the news as often as freeway chasings or driveby shootings. What has become of the US, where a person undergoing economic hardship, or temporary losing his mind over an argument, can easily resort to mass murder ?
Until the US adapt stricter guns control laws, we’ll see a lot more of those bloody mass slaughters -with quicker rate of occurence.
Elaine Mai
April 4th, 2009 at 10:42 pm
There are people out there who switch between nationality and ethnicity willy nilly. When they do anything bad, they claim to be Viet because they were either born or raised there, but when a Viet asks what their heritage is, they claim to be Chinese(”Hoa”), clearly disassociating themselves from the VN country and culture, implying Viets are no good.
Non Viets don’t know the difference, so when they hear Vietnamese, they get the idea that most Viets are bad people.
Whatever…
April 4th, 2009 at 11:08 pm
Viets do not kill people indiscriniminately; they may deceive indiscriminately. They usually target a specific individual. Also, they do not take down a large group of people; the largest is a family in a home invasion to steal their possession.
Non-Viet asians carry out random acts of violence. For example, the hostage ordeal up on Northern California years ago. A bunch of non-Viet asians held up the local Circuit City and decided to execute a random hostage to prove their point.
Another example is the Chinese American Ng who went around with his friend kidnapping and killing women and children. Not Viet - Chinese.
Another is the Chinese Canadian guy killing a random victim because he had lost his job.
This sort of random act of violence and large target group does not fit the profile of a Viet criminal - he usually commits it to survive, not to vent his frustration or anger.
This Voong or freak is not a Viet!
April 5th, 2009 at 12:23 am
Jiverly Wong was a Chinese man born in Vietnam. The ethnic Chinese community in Vietnam generally identify themselves with China. Once emigrating, they often identify themselves publicly and on official papers as 100% Chinese. That’s understandable. Perhaps it feels better to identify with a bigger and stronger country and a more prominent culture.
April 5th, 2009 at 4:10 am
Now this vietnamese community makes me sick! They tax cheat, they paid cash work, they exploit their own partner, they do dirty politics…
and now??? when someone is successfull, they say he or she is a vietnamese. when someone is not, then he is no vietnamese. So cool! I think now he has solid reason to go with the shooting, just that he didn’t shoot at the right people!
remember that other ethics will just says “oh he is an asian, and he is refugees.” In bad case like that, they will quickly remember him as a Vietnamese.
so if this ignorant and selfish community starts to argue like “sh*t, he is no part of us, we r all good”, then hell! I think the US should ship all those vietnamese to …. THE MOON!
April 5th, 2009 at 7:19 am
I am sick of all these arguments about “viet -non viet”. What difference does it make? A tragedy is a tragedy! When you are crazy or dispaired, it wouldn’t make any difference where you come from! Now, if you want to get down to that childish level of who is Viet, who is not, for your information, a young Vietnamese man who lived 5 blocks away from me killed 6 relatives and friends when they were shoving rice in their mouths on a Sunday. Now, would you hurry up and prove that perhaps his aunt-in-law’s step father’s cousin’s neighbor’s fiance’s teacher’s brother was Chinese?
April 5th, 2009 at 7:40 am
People with discriminate and selfish minds like Lil Saigon Man and True Vietnamese are the exact reasons why we have people who go angry and beserk & go on a shooting rampage. It’s probably a good idea to round these 2 up to prevent future massacre? We should go beyond looking at the gunman and start studying the ones who instigated the tragedy!
April 5th, 2009 at 8:04 am
Viets do bad things for sure but not the large scale random killings. The example above proves my point that the killer knew his victims, so yes, he fits the profile of a Viet killer.
As for the last blog, discussion of a topic equates to being it?
April 5th, 2009 at 8:57 am
Lil Saigon man, you are racist!
April 5th, 2009 at 8:58 am
I am part Chinese too, so to you, I am more likely to kill strangers that someone who is as pure as you? I hope you are still a little kid, otherwise you are a sad case of humans who live long but haven’t learned much about human nature!
April 5th, 2009 at 9:00 am
Look at those perfect Viets,
You are completely right.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-me-serialkillers5-2009apr05,0,2434292.story
The FBI study and profile killers, and they discriminate and therefore have selfish minds. Those people are truly dangerous with real weapons too. You should try to stop and study them. Hahaha.
April 5th, 2009 at 9:01 am
Either that or you have only started reading the news in the last few years, that’s why you missed out on those events such as a Vietnamese man who went on a shooting spree at an electronic department in Utah in the 90s. Or was he Chinese too?
April 5th, 2009 at 9:03 am
You certainly read that article without thinking deeply enough: the profile of a typical mass murderer is linked to his/her social/economic background, not to ethnicity. Read it again and this time do some thinking, you right-wing teenager!
April 5th, 2009 at 9:07 am
Never said Chinese people are killers, only identifying worst cases, and the individuals’ ethnicity. Can you send a link to that story? Like to read it.
April 5th, 2009 at 9:41 am
Please be careful about what you read and hear from sources that are anonymous. There are many errors. This is just a blog and not really researched by an actual news writer. This is only an informative data and not actual fact.
April 5th, 2009 at 12:36 pm
Elaine Mai, if you don’t like our gun laws, then maybe you should re-consider being such a staunch Republican.
For those of you who don’t see this guy as a Vietnamese, there are nearly 60 ethnic groups in Vietnam. Many of you are actually members of these groups without even knowing it. Many common Vietnamese surnames have ethnic minority origins.
April 5th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
li’l saigon man, you do sound like a racist.
April 5th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/police-beach-long-2355068-cal-viejo
April 5th, 2009 at 5:49 pm
With all due respect to the poor souls who didn’t deserve to die in New York, my thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families at this difficult time.
Like all Americans, I was shocked and horrified to learn the deaths of innocent people and the heartfelt stories from the survivors and the loved ones of those who lost their lives.
Apparently, the easy answer people most often use about massacre involving guns is to demonize the NRA. But who can explain a man decapitated his 5-year old sister in her birthday party?
Who can explain madmen? Who can explain evil?
This is the time we should speak from reason and not sentiment. Pointing fingers, which is bad, and it reveals blind spots in our rationale, inhibiting our ability to fully grasp our predicament.
Of course, there is a lot of self-recrimination in our society afterward about the warning signs we should have seen. But now, there is no need for us to go digging into exactly where all the hate is coming from.
We must ask ourselves “What can we do to make sure it never happens again!”
There are those who have suggested bizarre and preposterous measures such as gun control, legalize “mari-gee-wana”, honest police department, and limit CEO bonus as a way of dealing with the problem that might trigger any crackpot goes loco.
The simple answer is, like the lady said: it takes a village.
The slightly more complicated answer is:
“God, why is there suffering? Can’t you take away misery?”
“No. Of course not, don’t be silly.
If I took away misery, no one would talk to me.”
April 5th, 2009 at 5:53 pm
All these accusations and no solid proof to disprove my earlier opinion. What did I say? Viet killers fit a certain profile:
1. They know the victims and do not kill randomly or
2. They do not take on a large group, largest is a family as in home invasion or
3. They victimize their own kind or
4. They commit such a crime for monetary reasons, not for the thrill of it.
Examples you cite support one of the above conditions. What kind of bloggers are you? Information at your finger tips and can’t come up with anything solid. How sad is that?
Now, here is some information you can read and come up with your own conclusion.
The sort of killing Jiverly Wong engaged in is classified as serial killing.
Read the common traits of a serial killer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_killer#Serial_killers_in_history
The above examples I cited:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Ng
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,398222,00.html
http://www.sacbee.com/1219/gallery/1281485.html
No one to call my bluff! What kind of bloggers am I dealing with?
Jose S, do I sound like a racist only or am a racist or both?
April 5th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
Master XYZ, you rock the boat as always.
April 5th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
Sorry Lil Saigon, that incident happened before email and internet news became popular, so I don’t have any link for you.
Re: gun control: it would be a tough battle because the Repub won’t loosen their teeth on this billion-dollars a year business. In the mean time, those who collect guns, usually in the heartland, will fight tooth and nail to be able to protect this dated hobby, thinking that they still live in the wild wild west era. Little do they know, America is the laughing stocks of the world: Hahaha! Hahaha! Look at the fat people with their guns!!!
God, Guns, Television! Amen!
April 5th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
Look at those perfect Viets,
You said: Sorry Lil Saigon, that incident happened before email and internet news became popular, so I don’t have any link for you.
I am calling your bluff. If I was able to pull up the an article so should you.
Someone is lying and it’s not me…
Hahaha. Have a good evening.
April 5th, 2009 at 6:26 pm
Alright, I give up! You won-I lost!Have a sweet dream!
April 5th, 2009 at 7:00 pm
Lil’ Saigon… I agree… Vietnamese are ALL good and Chinese are ALL bad… now why don’t you Vietnamese angels all get the hell out of our Chinatowns since we are so bad and murderous? Every Chinatown in the US are full of you midget Viets and your ugly Vietnamese writing scribbled on our buildings. We might as well rename all the American Chinatowns “Little Saigons,” so that good ol’ white people think that us Chinese all live in slums, drive ricers and go to community colleges like you Viets do.
Get out!
April 5th, 2009 at 7:03 pm
Lil’ Saigon… I agree… Vietnamese are ALL good and Chinese are ALL bad… now why don’t you Vietnamese angels all get the hell out of our Chinatowns since we are so bad and murderous? Every Chinatown in the US are full of you midget Viets and your ugly Vietnamese writing scribbled on our buildings. We might as well rename all the American Chinatowns “Little Saigons,” so that good ol’ white people won’t think that us Chinese all live in slums, drive ricers and go to community colleges like you spiky-haired Viets do.
Get out!
April 5th, 2009 at 7:52 pm
Good lord, I observe this debate with a “great pleasure.” First it was HILARIOUS to see one guys brought all types of solid evident and rhetoric argument to prove that this guys is not a typical viet murder but maybe chinese or whoever. Then, it turns to be a battle between which ethnicity is good, and which is bad…
Great job, you all adult people.
Well I have a boring job to do. I just visit a church a long bolsa avenue where they have esl class. I will go there, try to find sth “boring”to do, and hopefully have a chance to tell them …
“….hey I think we r lucky to be here, and u better learn english and be successfull or u’ll be all crazy someday!”
April 5th, 2009 at 7:53 pm
But maybe it is a good news. Firstly, America is safer because a crazy man was dead. Secondly, America become less congested for 13 people has gone with the bullets. Thirdly, if we compute the amount of CO2 and garbage these 13 people and their descendants could produce if they were still alive, we may realize that this mass murder is really helpful to our beloved environment. Fourthly, the undertakers , the police and the media have an additional chance to do their jobs. Fifthly, the US citizens now have a chance to think about ” what the heck is happening to this country?”. And lastly, Mr Bolsavik has a new entry just to debate whether the murderer’s name is Annamese or not.
Personally, I extremely sympathize with this poor crazy man.Haply he just wanted his lack of voice to be heard. If I had a gun and some bullets here, I would no doubt make the first mass murder in Vietnam. Loneliness, distress, depression, lack of money, lack of freedom, failure in love … so many things can lead a man into an evil alley. I think the guy firstly just wanted to kill himself but he then realized that dying alone is no fun so he came to get some companions. And they just go together when they go. What a comforting thought that is to know! That is a celestial bereavement, so inspiring an achievement of this guy.
” ăn không được đạp đổ” , an old VN proverb lol
@ Murderous Chink : You chinks are asses, we Viets are asses too. So what is the problem here? You want to figure out which nation is more asinine?
April 5th, 2009 at 8:23 pm
“If I had a gun and some bullets here, I would no doubt make the first mass murder in Vietnam” Good thing there tight gun control in Vietnam, you gotta give the Vietnamese government credit for that. Unless Republicanism is brought there by returning Vietnamese in their lovely Hawaiiwan shirts and tennis shoes and ear-piercing English(-:
April 5th, 2009 at 8:24 pm
@Murderous Chinese:
if you go to dowtown chinatown in LA (the city), most are chinese vn; they will say so. the other chinese ethnicities have moved on to other cities. as a matter of fact, taiwanese chinese will distinguish themselves from the rest. mandarin-speaking the same. then the cantonese speaking. then hong kong. the chinese vn are on the bottom rung because they are considered not pure heritage. that is a fact.chinese society has its own ethnicity structure; do not fool yourself.
what is very cool is to see vn language on food stuff at these chinese supermarkets for the viet patrons. in fact, some will stop speaking chinese and assist in explaining the item in vn.
how can one not be thankful for having such wonderful human beings around?
April 5th, 2009 at 8:31 pm
XYZ wrote :
“Apparently, the easy answer people most often use about massacre involving guns is to demonize the NRA. But who can explain a man decapitated his 5-year old sister in her birthday party? ”
Ofcourse you can’t stop crazy people from hurting their victims, but it’s obvious that powerful guns are the most efficient & vicious way for crazy people to commit mass killings. If you see a mad man swinging wildly with a knife, you still have a good chance to run away, but if he got a semi automatic machine gun, your survival chance is pretty slim.
The reason you don’t see many masacres in other countries because they have strict guns control law. Just look at Mr. An’s email above, he may be just kidding when he said “If I had a gun and some bullets here, I would no doubt make the first mass murder in Vietnam.” but then we never know, An could be a sick man and he would carry out his stupid threat if he had an easy access to powerful guns.
Mai Linh
April 5th, 2009 at 9:11 pm
@Elaine Mai
What this guy did is truly psychologically reasonable so don’t blame the gun control issue. People are so ingenious, if someone really want to kill, he will find his own method regardless there is a gun control law or not. Think about a razor infected with HIV as a good example. To be gunned down or to live with HIV, which is the more catastrophic? - It is your choice.
Moreover, my dear Elaine Mai, your imagination is too tedious as a matter of fact. Why don’t you imagine how sick I would be if I had the power like Hitler’s, Stalin’s, Mao’s… rather than just if I had an easy access to powerful guns? Everyone has simultaneously an angel and a devil in his own soul, and which one would be released depends on the particular situations. I don’t know why you hypocrites always try to be goody-goody when talking about these problems. Why don’t you people just imagine what you would do if you were in this Wong guy’s situation? Would you kill more or less?
In short, I always judge things by reason, not passion. So in my opinion this incident is really natural, it is a part of our human nature. If your friend relative was killed, just blame his fate and don’t be panic and feel lost for you will meet him in heaven or hell soon.
April 5th, 2009 at 9:15 pm
it doesnt matter viet or chinese or white or black. human killed human and since you live in this country they will immediately racist you if you aren’t white. Murderers or killers are everywhere…
April 5th, 2009 at 9:21 pm
ooops, I forgot to check the spelling in my posts
April 5th, 2009 at 9:51 pm
When a Canadian of Chinese descent won an Olympic gold medal, Bolsavik ran headline “A Vietnamese Canadian won Olympic gold medal.” This time a Vietnam-born American of Chinese descent committed mass murdering, Bolsavik tries to explain that the killer is not so… Viet. Ha!
April 5th, 2009 at 10:17 pm
Mr. An wrote “I don’t know why you hypocrites always try to be goody-goody when talking about these problems. Why don’t you people just imagine what you would do if you were in this Wong guy’s situation? Would you kill more or less? ”
Mr An, I was in Wong’s situation a few times : unemployed, depressed, angry … but the thoughts of killing myself or killing someone never crossed my mind. For a normal and healthy person, it’s absolutely normal to be unemployed and feeling angry and depress, but only sick individuals
would entertain themselves with the thoughts of killing themselves and taking many others with them. ”ăn không được đạp đổ” is a selfish, nasty, evil, shameful, cowardly conception. ” ăn không được đạp đổ” only exists in the mind of mentally unstable individuals. We are not hypocrites when we are horrified and very upset to see someone coldly shootdown innocent victims, we’re just NORMAL people.
Mr. An, take it like a man : if you’re depress and losing the will to live, just throw yourself in front of a moving train, or shoot yourself in the head, but please don’t try to take anyone with you. I know it’s kind of lonely, painful and scary to die … alone, but please be courage. Try to walk through that cold, dark, and unknown tunnel alone, it’s your fate. Don’t be a coward. It’s your life and your death, yours and yours alone. You’re absolutely free to do whatever you want with it, but please don’t touch someone else.
Elaine Mai.
April 6th, 2009 at 5:30 am
[...] forums de la communauté ont tenté de se dissocier du tueur en le dépeignant comme étant Hmong, Nùng ou Chinois. Autrement dit, les minorités ethniques font partie de la nation quand on veut [...]
April 6th, 2009 at 7:00 am
An, I felt sorry for you. A man who wanna have a mass murder on his people is the man that truly experiences “Loneliness, distress, depression, lack of money, lack of freedom, failure in love.” What does this have to do with Vietnam anyway? Are you blaming Vietnam for this man’s action? “What this guy did is truly psychologically reasonable so don’t blame the gun control issue” , yes he got mental problem but if we have a gun control, is the massacre gonna happen? I don’t think so
April 6th, 2009 at 8:38 am
I agree with Le De’ni blog. Many people of Vietnamese descent are living in denial, e.g., some people still say the Vietnam war is not over yet!
A Nu`ng born in Vietnam is a Vietnamese. We are proud when a N`ung has some achievements, thus, we must bear the shame when a Nu`ng commits a horrible act.
April 6th, 2009 at 8:54 am
Quelle honte! Les minorite ethniques au Vietnam travaillent et payent ses impots comme le reste du monde. Quoi que les vietnamiens ne veulent pas les reconnaitre, ils (ces Hmong, Nung, Chinois) sont vietnamiens! Il faut regarder la verite en face! De plus, l’important c’est pas l’ethnicite des assassin mais ce qu’on doit faire pour les prevenir!
April 6th, 2009 at 9:17 am
This was a good lesson for everyone….. we need to pay close attention to less fortunate people around our community.
My prayers are with victim’s family members.
April 6th, 2009 at 9:44 am
Je suis d’accord avec Viet Hypocrite. Certains d’entre nous sont très hypocrites. Ils toujours prennent le crédit mais ne veulent jamais prendre le blâme.
April 6th, 2009 at 11:52 am
Would you rather face a guy who had two guns coming at you, or someone with two bacon cheeseburgers coming at you?
Well, that is a no-brainer.
And this is because people don’t know foods can kill you.
Too much of fattening food leading to diabetes, cardiovascular diseases.
Here is the statistics:
Cardiovascular disease is our number-one killer. (39%)
Cancer is number two. (23%)
Lung disease is number three. (5.1%)
Diabetes is number four. (2.9%)
Motor Vehicle Accidents is number seven. (1.8%)
Gun-related deaths is number ten (1.2%)
How many times have you played slot machines and hoped to win?
What is the probability of winning a jackpot?
I don’t need a degree in fuzzy math to know that 1.2% < 39%
I make a living taking care of patients suffering through slow but far more painful death from terminal diseases (I am not talking about getting sick at the airport), and it is so painful that they just want quick and painless exit, which brings up the question of euthanasia and assisted suicide that remind us the two visionaries: Heidi Fleiss and Dr Kevorkian – the queen and the king of coming and going.
Gun violence has inspired an outcry for gun control, but everyone is missing the big picture here. Whether it takes few seconds to die or years to die, the death is always the same.
Quick death or slow death – death is death.
But hey, if you want gun control, how about some coronary eatery control?
Your hamburger can’t be bigger than your ass.
If you add more types of meat on a bacon cheeseburger, you are denied health insurance.
April 6th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
“Heidi Fleiss and Dr Kevorkian – the queen and the king of coming and going.”
Hahaha, good post here…..One tiny speeling error i think.
should it spelled: The queen of cumming Heidi Fleiss?
And gun control?..How about automobile ban?..Driving a 2 tons of steel and combustible gasoline down the freeway at 60 mph is kind of not safe right?..Especially when you run over a group of gun control lobbyists?..
A gun is simply just a device to sling a piece of lead at higher velocity, farting loud noise and some smoke, and it takes skills to direct that piece of lead to hit your intended target…that s it. At close range, a kitchen knife or a baseball bat will do greater damages to a human body, should we ban those too?..
April 6th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
You are what you eat!
April 6th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
?????
So i d be turned into a woman if i ve been eating them?..Duh.
April 6th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
If you have been eating human flesh……. you belong inside of the mental institution before we hang you like Sadam with a rusty rope.
April 6th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
Sorry for the confusing word Jung Kim, i mean to use the term “eating” as an adult word to answer So What! for his dumb respond, that s all.
But actually, if you re stranded on an island hungry for a month?..Your buddy s belly looks just like Jim-Sum if you keep looking at it long enough.
April 6th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
Bolsavik,
In addition to trying to explain the shooter is not 100% Viet, you could also have done some research about the victims…
http://www.bbc.co.uk/vietnamese/vietnam/2009/04/090406_binghamtonvictims.shtml
April 6th, 2009 at 6:46 pm
hahaha…
April 6th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
To the NRA sympathizers :
Automobiles are made for transportation, kitchen knives are for cooking, and baseball bats are for playing baseball so ofcourse you can’t ban those useful things. But guns are made for just one purpose : killings helpless animals and fellow human beings.
Look at the murder rate in Japan, Singapore and Vietnam, where there are guns control laws then compare them to the US. It’s like day and night !
Yes, you can kill a person with a rope, a knife, or a stone … but guns are a lot more efficient, deathly accurate, and devastating effective. If a mad man charges into a crowd with a knife, he probably could kill up to 3 or 5 persons at the most before he is brought down, but if the same man attacks a large crowd with his powerful automatic guns, in rapid succession, he could easily kill and maim 30 to 40 people. With a knife or a baseball bat, the killing range is 2 to 4 feet, but with a gun, a cold blood killer can cut down any living things within a few hundred yards, and in any direction.
It doesn’t take a nuclear scientist to figure out that creating a strict guns control law is the first step to stop this bloody and sickly massacre trend,
but everyone will need to get involve in this legal process: we’ll need to write & call our elected officials and tell them that we want to stop the free
flow of those murderous guns. If we don’t do it now, the massacres will continue, and the river of blood of innocent victims will continue to flow swiftly.
April 6th, 2009 at 9:54 pm
Elaine:
You probably don’t care to hear me, but this is a blog so bear with me.
You said:
But guns are made for just one purpose : killings helpless animals and fellow human beings.
There is at least one shooting competition in the Olympics. Does this mean that the Olympics Committee is encouraging violence? How come I have not seen either objects as target for all these years?
People die from all kinds of reasons from accidents to intentional homicide. Some factors to keep in mind when this sort of topic is discussed is the frequency such as occurrence per capita or 1,000 or some measurement, to put all the events in perspective.
Other issues that have not been mentioned include 1) where did this individual acquire his weapons? 2) California or another state? 3) Also, did he acquire them legally? 4) Did he acquire these weapons before or after the CA more stringent screening process?
All these questions have not been answered…
April 7th, 2009 at 8:32 am
Elain Mai,
Do you just happened to know a guy named Timothy McVeight?..If i remember correctly, he didn t need no stinking gun to bring down a federal building, taking quite a few innocent souls with common fertilizer you and me can buy at Home Depot, should we ban those too?..
And please don t compare murder rates and gun related deaths between Vietnam, Singapore and such to this land….Just make it easy for your brain, why don t you compare Texas where guns are like a household items and Little Rock Arkansas of our past playboy Bill Clitton where guns are strongly opposed to see where the murder rate and crime with gun related are higher? Would you please enlighten my life please?..
April 7th, 2009 at 11:58 am
Sonny Tran,
Don’t forget that Timothy was the weapon and explosive specialist in the US Army, and don’t forget that Timothy was a “Soldier of Fortune” enthusiat and an NRA member, who spent most of his time on guns show circuits around the US to distribute “gun- rights” literature. Tim’s favorite slogan was “When guns are outlawed, I will become an an outlaw.”
The only reason Timothy didn’t use guns in Oklahoma because he knew how to make bombs and used it for deadlier effects.
Regarding the guns related death rate in Arkansas & texas : yes Arkansas has a slighly higher per capita crime rate than Texas (529 per thousand for Arkansas and 510 per thousand for Texas). But you gotta understand that Arkansas is ranked in the top ten poorest states in the US. Poverty often leads to higher crime rate - particular violent crimes.
April 7th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
So if a pharmacist s so miserable and decided to take his life and a few others like this fool Jiverly Wong here, he goes to a mulnicipal water plan and somehow managed to poisoned and killed a few thousand residents, should we considered banning all chemical majors?..And who s considered more guity?..A guy with two semi-auto assault guns killing 13?..Or a medical professor killing thousands…
And how about that smart pyramid king Madoff smoking 50 billions?..Who s considered more dangerous?..
April 7th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
There always the potential … but so far there aren’t that many crazy chemists or doctors who want to commit mass murders, we’ll deal with it when it happens (and happens often enough).
Right now the urgent crisis is there are too many powerful guns in the streets and they’re easily available for mentally unstable and criminal indiduals.
April 7th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
Lol Sonny Tran, you always give out examples of very low killing potential compared to guns, by which countless number of people die everyday. Yes, everything can literally kill people in some way, so like you said, we should ban love, marriage, and jobs too because there are crazy people out there die because of them
April 7th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
You ever go South to Mexico Elaine?..You know that if you got caught with a tiny, non-powerful gun in Mexico?..10 years in jail easy…And yes, 7000 plus killed last year, mostly gang related like the media tried to tell you…7000 lives?..All gun related, wonder if gun control really works?..
And let me just go slightly off track here to entertain you Elaine Mai.
Based on your name, you must be a cute girl?..So do you happened to know why of all world leaders, new and old, past and present….with the exception of Queen Elizabeth and Prime Minister Magaret Thatcher, no countries have guts or confident to have a woman leader?..And even Queen Elizabeth and Magaret Thatcher are English anyway, and since those damn English folks are weidos, that doesn t count.
So?…What do you think?..
Women decide their judgments based on their hearts, just like you Elaine.
Women solve problems visible in front of their eyes only, without thinking about long term effects, just like you Elaine.
Women will go into panic mode very quick and start doing coo-coo moves without realizing it till too late, just like you Elaine.
Women will start buying duct tapes if the damn TV reporter saying there are Anthrax threats, just like you Elaine.
Women will think about banning guns if one loser kill himself and shoot a few innocent bystanders, just like you Elaine.
So on and so on…………..
Now, should we be confident enough to let the woman wear pants and make all important decisions?…. Help me here Elaine Mai.
April 7th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
Yes Anonymous, i m not saying guns are bad or good, that s not the point.
Banning s just a way of saying:”Hello Big Brother Goverment, Comes Take One More Right Away From Me”….that s what bothers me….
April 7th, 2009 at 10:22 pm
Human are created to be smart enough to know what is right, what is wrong, what is safe and what is unsafe. It’s not about taking right from them. It’s about protecting them and keeping them safe and there they are way too many deaths resulting from a gun killers. People think guns protect them, no they don’t because the ones who are trying to harm them have guns too.
April 7th, 2009 at 11:25 pm
Here’s what has been reported by various mainstream sources:
1. Ethnicity: Chinese
2. Language: Chinese (broken English and broken Vietnamese)
3. Nationality: American (28 years)
4. Former Nationality: Vietnamese (14 years)
5. Culture: Chinese American Misfit (He did not hang around Vietnamese)
6. Ex-Wife: Xiu Ping Jiang
7. Ancestry: Chinese
8. Surname: Wong = Chinese, Voong = NOT Vietnamese (No “oo” in Vietnamese language)
*************************************
“A friend told The Associated Press that Wong was ethnically Chinese but from Vietnam.”
Source:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,512559,00.html
*************************************
“The road that took Wong to his demise in a classroom at the American Civic Association in downtown Binghamton began 41 years ago and half a world away in Vietnam, where he was born into an ethnically Chinese family.”
Source: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gJkIIKfdTrpMZyiQPW7SWmCNR2HAD97BS9UG0
*************************************
“Wong was ethnically Chinese but from Vietnam, a friend said Saturday.”
Source:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090404/ap_on_re_us/binghamton_shootings
*************************************
“Wong, 41, spent several years in California, where in 1992 he was arrested on a bad-check charge. It was in California, where he drove a truck, that he divorced his wife, Xiu Ping Jiang, in 2006. He returned to Binghamton the next year.”
Source: http://cbs5.com/national/binghamton.massacre.jiverly.2.977836.html
********************************************
“In this tight-knit community, the Wong family was well known. Many recalled Wong’s father, Duong, helping them fill out citizenship paperwork, even taking them to the doctor to translate. But the younger Wong was a mystery, rarely seen about town. HIS FIRST LANGUAGE WAS A CHINESE DIALECT; HE SPOKE NEITHER ENGLISH NOR VIETNAMESE WELL. The family immigrated from Vietnam, but their ethnicity was unclear.”
Source: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-binghamton-shooting6-2009apr06,0,57628.story
April 8th, 2009 at 12:33 am
A widow dreamed of her late husband and “heard” him saying:
“Honey! I’m in this place … the sky is blue, the grass is green and … there’s a lot of women.”
“Oh dear! I’m happy for you … are you in heaven?”
“Ah … no, I’m a bull in Montana.”
The Second Amendment was written because we had no standing army in 1787 and needed every man to have a gun to be used on the British invasion (I’m not talking about the Beatles or the Spice girls).
But lately, because of the Brady bunch, Supreme Court ruled that the framers also had in mind guns for Montana recreation – target shooting and safe hunting (if big “Dick” Cheney isn’t around) and for self-defense.
Oh yes, for self-defense!
Have you ever driven your car over the speed limit when there’s no cop around?
So, burglars must be thinking about home-invasion when people have no gun for self-defense.
The National Institute for Justice reported that: 60% of felons polled agreed that “a criminal is not going to mess around with a victim he knows is armed with a gun.”
Frequently, gun-control advocates repeat the argument that someone with a gun suddenly “going off” on a murder spree. But hey, Susan Smith “going off” with her two children in a car; Andrea Yates “going off” with her five children in a bathtub; and Kim Tran in Alaska “going off” with her husband penis with a knife.
With gun control laws in Britain, there are fewer deaths by guns, but more deaths from beatings, stranglings, stabbings and other “non-gun” violence. The goal is a reduction of total violent deaths, not just gun deaths. Gun control resulting in a transfer of fatalities, a shift in focus, or to put it in another way, just like teenage girls who have taken an “abstinence” pledge and then: “Oh, I want to be pure … so in the back, then I’ll blow you.”
Are criminals the source of crime, no matter how they are armed?
Is blaming a gun for the killing like blaming a spoon for Rosie being fat?
Should we focus on controlling criminal behavior instead of controlling access to guns?
We must learn the causes of violence rather than looking to elected officials to pass more laws.
April 8th, 2009 at 7:50 am
XYZ, provide me the number of total deaths in Britain since the gun control laws was implemented. Is it less or more then before the law was implemented. Again, the goal is reduction of total deaths. If gun deaths decreases, and yes others must surely increase because people can’t use guns to kill, does the number of deaths increase? If it does not the gun control is good isnt it?
April 8th, 2009 at 10:19 am
Sonny Tran wrote : “Based on your name, you must be a cute girl?..”
ha ha ha … how can you tell from a name ? but FYI, some people told me I look like Leyna Nguyen, others told me I must be Dina Nguyen’s twin sister
Regarding the gun violences in Mexico, it’s a total different problem ! the Mexican drug cartels are not ordinary folks, they’re very rich, extremely well organized, incredible deathly and powerful. It will take a lot of combined efforts from the US and Mexican governments to fight them. The powerful Mexican drug dealers have infiltrated and neutralized the Mexican local police forces. It’s a war between them and the Mexican military right now. Gun-control law in Mexico ? the drug gangs probably would roll on the floor laughing at it, but when after the drug war is over (and I assume that the Mexican military will win) then the Mexican law makers should start to create one.
April 8th, 2009 at 11:47 am
XIN KÍNH CHUYỂN ĐÊN QUÝ VỊ, QUÝ NIÊN TRƯỞNG VÀ CÁC BẠN…
HAI NẠN NHÂN TRONG VỤ THẢM SÁT Ở BINGHAMTON, NEW YORK… LÀ ĐỒNG HƯƠNG VIỆT NAM VỪA ĐƯỢC ĐỊNH CƯ TẠI HOA KỲ…NGƯỜI VỢ ĐÃ TỬ NẠN VÀ NGƯỜI CHỒNG BỊ TRỌNG THƯƠNG…BỎ LẠI HAI CON NHỎ 11 và 9 TUỔI…
XIN QUÝ VỊ MỞ RỘNG LÒNG TỪ TÂM GIÚP ĐỠ CHO GIA ĐÌNH NGƯỜI ĐỒNG HƯƠNG KHÔNG MAY MẮN ..
CŨNG XIN QUÝ VỊ GÓP TAY PHỔ BIẾN TIN TỨC VỀ CÂU CHUYỆN THƯƠNG TÂM NÀY…
CHÂN THÀNH CẢM TẠ.
Kinh, than,
BMH
Washington, D.C
** XIN VUI LÒNG THEO DÕI THƠ KÊU GỌI CỦA ANH NAM LỘC…DƯỚI ĐÂY…
NẾU KHÔNG ĐỌC ĐƯỢC XIN MỞ ATTACHMENT..
Câu Chuyện Thương Tâm tại New York.
Kính nhờ quý anh chị vui lòng phổ biến lời kêu gọi đính kèm.
Thành thật cám ơn.
Nam Lộc
——————————————————
LỜI KÊU GỌI GIÚP ĐỠ GIA ĐÌNH NẠN NHÂN NGƯỜI VIỆT
TRONG VỤ THẢM SÁT TẠI BINGHAMTON , NEW YORK
Kính thưa quý vị, trong vụ thảm sát xẩy ra tại thành phố Binghamton, New York vào ngày thứ Sáu, mùng 3 tháng Tư, 2009 tuần qua giết chết 13 người, trong số đó có một người Việt Nam duy nhất, đó là chị Hồ Thị Mỹ Lan, 41 tuổi, còn người chồng là Huỳnh Thanh Long, 43 tuổi tuy còn sống, nhưng vết thương rất trầm trọng.
Gia đình anh Huỳnh Thanh Long vừa được chấp nhận định cư tại Hoa Kỳ theo diện McCain, vì cha anh là một cựu tù nhân chính trị và đã phải trải qua nhiều năm trong các trại tù cải tạo. Chị Mỹ Lan mất đi để lại hai người con, một trai 9 tuổi, và một gái 11 tuổi. Gia đình anh chị vẫn đang sống nhờ trợ cấp xã hội, vì thế phải theo các lớp huấn luyện về Anh ngữ hầu chuẩn bị tìm việc làm. Và cũng tại văn phòng di trú, tỵ nạn thuộc cơ quan thiện nguyện American Civic Association nơi họ đang theo học, thì hung thủ Jiverly Wong đã đột nhập và nổ súng.
Từ Việt Nam, gia đình của chị Mỹ Lan có liên lạc với chúng tôi ngỏ ý xin cộng đồng người Việt ở hải ngoại giúp đỡ để có phương tiện đưa xác chị về VN chôn cất, cũng như cho Mẹ già và anh chị em được gặp mặt chị lần cuối cùng. Riêng hai người con nhỏ thì đang tạm sống với gia đình cô Huỳnh Thanh Hồng, là em gái của anh Huỳnh Long. Cô Hồng cũng mới đến HK theo diện di dân, không được lãnh trợ cấp, và cũng có hai đứa con, hiện cô đang làm công cho một tiệm Nail ở Binghamton nên phương tiện tài chánh cũng rất eo hẹp.
Chúng tôi đang xin phép cho mẹ anh Huỳnh Long tức bà nội của các cháu được sang HK trước là để thăm viếng con trai, và sau đó có thể sống để chăm sóc hai đứa cháu nội vừa mồ côi mẹ.
Trong hoàn cảnh khó khăn hiện nay và trước nỗi khổ đau của cả hai gia đình, chúng tôi xin tha thiết kêu gọi lòng hảo tâm của quý vị đồng hương ở khắp mọi nơi, nếu có thể được, của ít lòng nhiều, hãy đóng góp và tiếp tay với gia đình nạn nhân để lo việc ma chay cùng những vần đề cần phải giải quyết trong lúc bối rối và thiếu thốn phương tiện hiện nay.
Mọi sự đóng góp xin sử dụng bằng chi phiếu hoặc money order và đề trả cho (payable to):
Ms. HỒNG HUỲNH và gởi về địa chỉ:
8 Miles Street, Binghamton , NY 13905
Điện thoại: (607) 770-6033
Chân thành cảm ơn quý vị,
Nam Lộc
(213) 251-3460
Cơ quan thiện nguyện
American Civic Association
Binghamton, New York
April 8th, 2009 at 11:50 am
This is the action of a real Viet man, in oppose to the action of that Chinese killer. Read on.
‘Tôi cần vợ sống… nhưng cô ấy chết trên tay tôi’
Huỳnh Thanh Long, chồng của nạn nhân người Việt chết trong vụ thảm sát ở New York cuối tuần trước, kể về nỗ lực tuyệt vọng bất thành của anh nhằm che chở cho vợ trước mũi súng của kẻ cuồng sát.
“Tôi thấy tay súng bước vào trong phòng và bắn”, Huỳnh Thanh Long nhớ lại giây phút Jiverly Wong, người Việt gốc Hoa di cư sang Mỹ, thực hiện vụ thảm sát ở tòa nhà cộng đồng ở thành phố Binghamton, bang New York.
Huỳnh Thanh Long và vợ, chị Hồ Thị Mỹ Lan, đang tham gia lớp học tiếng Anh ở tòa nhà này thì vụ giết chóc kinh hoàng diễn ra, hôm thứ sáu 3/4.
Huynh nghĩ mình sẽ không thể sống sót được, nhưng muốn vợ sống để nuôi hai con.
“Sau khi nghe thấy tiếng súng đầu tiên, tôi nghĩ đời mình thế là hết”, Huynh nằm trên giường điều trị vết thương tại bệnh viện Wilson Medical Center, nói. “Tôi biết tôi sẽ chết”.
“Tất cả những gì tôi nghĩ đến khi đó là vợ. Tôi cần cô ấy sống để nuôi các con tôi”.
Khi những viên đạn bay đến, người chồng đẩy vợ xuống sàn nhà và cố lấy thân mình che cho chị. Một trong ba viên đạn của Wong sượt qua người Huynh và gây tử thương cho chị Ho.
“Tôi ấn cô ấy xuống sàn và ngả người che”, cha của hai đứa con 11 và 9 tuổi, kể lại. “Nhưng tôi quá chậm. Kẻ sát nhân đã bắn cô ấy rồi”.
“Cô ấy chết trên tay tôi”. Huynh đã nằm bất động gần một giờ đồng hồ bên thi thể vợ, trước khi cảnh sát vào được bên trong tòa nhà.
Bản thân Huynh cũng bị nhiều phát đạn, bị thương ở cằm và vai. Anh đã ngồi dậy được sau ca mổ ở bệnh viện. Gặp em gái đến thăm, Huynh nói: “Đừng nói dối anh. Vợ anh chết rồi”.
Gia đình Huynh vẫn chưa báo tin buồn cho các con. “Tôi không biết làm thế nào mà nói với các cháu chuyện đã xảy ra với mẹ chúng”, Met Tran, một người họ hàng lớn tuổi của Huynh, nói.
Những ngày này, cộng đồng dân cư ở Binghamton đau buồn sau khi chứng kiến vụ thảm sát kinh hoàng nhất trong lịch sử thành phố. Những người thiệt mạng là người nhập cư, đến từ nhiều quốc gia khác nhau, và cũng có cả người Mỹ.
Wong đã tự sát sau khi bắn chết 13 người và làm bị thương 4 người. Cảnh sát mới phát hiện rằng trước khi thực hiện vụ bắn giết này, y đã viết thư tuyệt mệnh và gửi một đài truyền hình địa phương. Động cơ giết người của Wong có thể là do hận đời vì mất việc và bị coi thường vì tiếng Anh kém.
T. Huyền (theo NY Daily News, Canada.com)
http://tinnhanhvietnam.net/Th4323b-tuy78793bt-m78793bnh-c79113ba-s2253bt-th79113b-New-York.html
April 8th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
Here is the URL to the article above that Stop Fighting Start Helping was quoting.
http://www.vnexpress.net/GL/The-gioi/Nguoi-Viet-5-chau/2009/04/3BA0DB58/
April 8th, 2009 at 8:08 pm
So, is this Wong guy part of the Viet or Chinese community or both or neither? A reader can get thoroughly confused by all the above entries. If we say he’s one of us, then someone of Chinese heritage will scream bloody mad for insulting his ancestry. If we don’t then we deliberately deny their nationality.
Can we accept a part of him, his nationality? And the Chinese community can keep the other, his ethnicity? Maybe Bob Marley has got right with the weed to calm these psychos down? The state of New York should play the song, Smoke Two Joints, daily in the morning to relax their citizens.
April 8th, 2009 at 11:35 pm
stop fighting start helping WROTE:
“This is the action of a real Viet man, in oppose to the action of that Chinese killer. Read on.”
Please stick to the facts rather than convoluted argument. Wong couldn’t even speak, i.e. understand, Vietnamese, for God’s sake. If you CAN’T understand the language, you CAN’T understand the culture. If you DON’T associate with a group, then you DON’T belong to that group.
He was born ethnically Chinese in Vietnam. I myself have met two Chinese-Vietnamese who can’t even speak Vietnamese even though they came to the US as adults. This was common in Cholon, which is an enormous Chinese city onto itself. And I don’t even know that many Chinese-Vietnamese to begin with.
Consider this: A pregnant Norwegian woman (married couple), a pregnant Nigerian woman, and a pregnant Chinese woman gives birth to a child in Vietnam. First, does Vietnam even have “anchor baby” laws, in particular when Wong was born? (Remember, the Chinese in Vietnam were exempt from fighting in the war, and most chose not to. What does this say about their nationality, much less ethnicity? The PRC cited Vietnam’s maltreatment of Vietnam’s sizable Chinese minority as justification for attacking Vietnam in 1979.) Further, the three boys (Norwegian, Nigerian, Chinese) respectively grow up amongst their own kind, barely learning Vietnamese. They then move to the US at age 14. 28 years later they each commit a shooting massacre killing 13 people.
The Norwegian, Jiverly Erikson, can’t speak English nor Vietnamese well, which he never learned, and was married to a Norwegian American. The Nigerian, Jiverly Nyong, can’t speak English nor Vietnamese well, which he never learned, and was married to a Nigerian American. And the Chinese, Jiverly Wong, can’t speak English nor Vietnamese well, which he never learned, and was married to a Chinese American, namely Xiu Ping Jiang.
Because of poor language skills, the Norwegian speaks Norwegian at home and thinks in Norwegian. Because of poor language skills, the Nigerian speaks Nigerian at home and thinks in Nigerian. Because of poor language skills, the Chinese speaks Chinese (no doubt Cantonese) at home and thinks in Chinese.
Neither of them associate with the Vietnamese community of Binghamton, or any other Vietnamese community in the US.
They each spent more time in the US than in Vietnam. They don’t associate with Vietnamese in the US. They marry their own kind. They never even learned Vietnamese.
There’s NOTHING linguistically, culturally, ethnically, ancestrally (surname, etc.) Vietnamese about any of them. And their CURRENT nationality is, in fact: AMERICAN.
28 years vs 14: They are twice as much American as they are Vietnamese.
So why are they Vietnamese?
HINT: Let’s not kid ourselves, we all know if Jiverly Wong had instead won the Nobel Prize, he’d INSTANTLY be Chinese. Without question, no doubt, it’s a no-brainer: “Obnoxious Vietnamese stop claiming him as your own!”
But because he shot and killed 13 people, including Vietnamese btw, he must be Vietnamese. “No way, no how is he Chinese!”
LOL.
April 9th, 2009 at 12:58 am
Li’l Saigon Man WROTE:
“There are people out there who switch between nationality and ethnicity willy nilly. When they do anything bad, they claim to be Viet because they were either born or raised there, but when a Viet asks what their heritage is, they claim to be Chinese(”Hoa”), clearly disassociating themselves from the VN country and culture, implying Viets are no good.”
YES. Sad, but true. But not 100%, since throughout the centuries, many have become assimilated (intermarrying) and become Vietnamese. On the other hand, it is 100% true with those ethnic Chinese who consciously chose to never assimilate.
Lets be careful with language.
***********************************************
Look at those perfect Viets WROTE: “People with discriminate and selfish minds like Lil Saigon Man and True Vietnamese are the exact reasons why we have people who go angry and beserk & go on a shooting rampage.”
NO. Only the mentally unstable react this way.
To some extent, all minorities are discriminated against in the US. If you think Asians have it bad… LOL, the blacks and Hispanics have it far worse, especially the blacks. Life is tough for everyone, and it is a little tougher for minorities, only the weak and cowardly resort to such diabolical revenge. Again, only the mentally unstable go on rampages.
But let’s not kid ourselves, if you want far worse discrimination, then go to Asian countries like Japan, S. Korea, Vietnam, and of course China. Europe, the Mideast, Africa, Central America, South Asia are also more, or even far more, racist and ethnocentric than the US.
Yet by and large they do NOT have an epidemic of rampage shootings simply because they don’t have guns and/or America’s thoroughly nihilistic gun culture.
*************************************************
Look at those perfect Viets WROTE:
“I am part Chinese too, so to you, I am more likely to kill strangers that someone who is as pure as you? I hope you are still a little kid, otherwise you are a sad case of humans who live long but haven’t learned much about human nature!”
I agree. There’s nutjob in every group. However, Wong is Chinese. Of course, his ancestry/ethnicity has nothing to do with it.
In the US, shooting massacres are committed almost entirely by white males. It’s unfortunate that two Asians have committed amongst the worst, i.e. more than 10 killed: Chai Vang (Hmong) killed 6 and wounded 2, Bryan K. Uyesugi (Japanese, 1999) killed 7 and wounded 1, Jiverly Wong (Chinese) killed 13 and wounded 2, and Cho Seung Hui (Korean) killed 32 and wounded 25.
The key issues are guns (gun availability, American gun culture) and mental illness (paranoia, schizophrenia, drug abuse, etc.), not race nor ethnicity.
BTW, it’s clear to everyone that you see yourself as Chinese, i.e. “look at those perfect Viets”. This confirms the Vietnamese claims that Chinese in Vietnam, as with everywhere else, tend not to assimilate. Your overly defensive poster unwittingly further confirms Wong’s true identity w.r.t. ethnicity.
**********************************************
Li’l Saigon Man WROTE:
“Viets do not kill people indiscriniminately; they may deceive indiscriminately. They usually target a specific individual.”
This is about guns and mental illness, not race nor ethnicity.
Sooner or later, a Vietnamese nutjob, Asian Indian nutjob, Arab nutjob, Jewish nutjob, African American nutjob, Hispanic nutjob, Jedi nutjob, Vulcan nutjob, Klingon nutjob, Romunlan nutjob, Borg nutjob,… WILL DO IT TOO.
Then what will you say?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chai_Vang
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byran_Uyesugi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiverly_Wong#The_perpetrator
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seung-Hui_Cho
April 9th, 2009 at 1:08 am
Look at those perfect Viets & stop fighting start helping Says,
Listen you two…
By vehemently insisting Wong is NOT Chinese, the Chinese are saying precisely that he’s Vietnamese, i.e. homicidal rampages are a Vietnamese thing.
Apparently, neither a Vietnamese nor a Chinese swinging a dead cat can avoid hitting each other with xenophobic hyperbole.
Me? I prefer the facts. Wong is Chinese, but that’s besides the point. The points are guns & mental illness.
April 9th, 2009 at 2:06 am
Li’l Saigon Man WROTE:
“So, is this Wong guy part of the Viet or Chinese community or both or neither? A reader can get thoroughly confused by all the above entries. If we say he’s one of us, then someone of Chinese heritage will scream bloody mad for insulting his ancestry. If we don’t then we deliberately deny their nationality.”
The facts clearly say Wong is “Chinese”/”Chinese American”. (See my links & citations above.) But let’s set aside the facts and look at the subtle and not so subtle “posturing” which fundamentally betrays what they are both respectively trying so hard to convey on the surface:
If we use the rationale of the US media and that of the Chinese, we can firmly conclude that Wong is Chinese or American, or Chinese America. HE’S NOT VIETNAMESE.
————————————-
1. The US Media: First, WONG IS AN AMERICAN CITIZEN. Yet, the media kept saying, i.e. insisting, he’s “a Vietnamese immigrant”. But he’s spent twice as many years in the US as in Vietnam! He’s current nationality is USA, not Vietnamese. There’s no need to bring up his immigrant status other than for the purpose of racist scapegoating. He’s an American citizen, end of story–at least it should be!
What they’re really saying here is rampage shootings are NOT an American thing, but a Vietnamese thing: “No, he’s not one of us, he’s an outsider.” It’s abundantly clear they want to put it out there that Wong is an “outsider”. But is he? After all, do these rampage shootings occur in Vietnam, or for that matter China?!?
These rampage shootings are quintessentially an American thing, and Wong did the American thing. Ergo…
Using this line of logic, WONG IS AN AMERICAN.
BTW, how often does the US media delve into the ancestry of white males who commit such atrocities? After all, white males are responsible for about 90% of such rampages.
——————————————
2. The Chinese position: “WONG IS OF COURSE VIETNAMESE SINCE HE WAS BORN IN VIETNAM.”
Then why are Chinese Americans Chinese? Why do they take pride in the accomplishments of overseas Chinese? Why do they brag that overseas Chinese control the economies of SE Asia?
TO BE CONSISTENT, THE POSITION OF CHINESE AMERICANS SHOULD READ: “HE’S AN AMERICAN. HE’S NOT VIETNAMESE. WE ARE AMERICANS. AMERICAN NOBEL LAUREATES OF CHINESE ANCESTRY ARE ‘AMERICANS’ AND NOTHING ELSE, SO CHINESE IN CHINA NEED TO STOP CLAIMING THEY ARE CHINESE.”
Instead, they desperately insist, contrary to the facts btw, that he’s unequivocally Vietnamese. They can’t have it both ways: When people of Chinese ancestry do good things, they are Chinese. When they screw up, they are not Chinese.
This THOROUGHLY BRAZEN SELF-CONTRADICTION in no uncertain terms means:
WONG IS CHINESE.
Me? I fully accept the fact that Chinese Americans have done impressive things, that overseas Chinese do “control” many of the economies of SE Asia, and by the very same INTERNALLY CONSISTENT rationale:
WONG IS CHINESE.
To reject that Jiverly Wong is Chinese is to say: We want no part of this guy, even though he is ethnically Chinese. Further, this inherently says they take pride in their Chinese heritage (for they don’t want Wong’s filth). That is they distinguish between that which is Chinese and that which is not. Apparently race and ethnicity are very important to them. They are not blind to it. Except… LOL…
… WHEN ONE OF THEIR OWN KILLS 13 PEOPLE.
In such cases, an individual’s heritage, ancestry, language (Wong’s doesn’t speak Vietnamese, he speaks Chinese), ethnicity, culture, etc., matters NOT and is naturally superseded not by their CURRENT nationality (Wong is a US citizen, 28 years), but by their FORMER nationality (Vietnam, 14 years.)
This is completely laughable to say the least.
*****************************************
Thus, not only do the FACTS say Wong is Chinese/Chinese American, but so do BOTH of the fundamentally self-contradicting/self-serving posturing of the CHINESE COMMUNITY and the US MEDIA.
April 9th, 2009 at 2:51 am
One last post… Some clarifications and crystallizations…
The US media’s dubious position revolves around RACE: “Wong is a Vietnamese immigrant.” …As if his (former) nationality is germane to the debate. Such shooting massacres do NOT occur in Vietnam, hence it is IRRELEVANT to repeatedly mention his FORMER nationality, particularly since they NEVER bother to mention the ethnicity of white rampage shooters, who are responsible for the vast majority of mass shooting incidents.
“WONG IS AN AMERICAN CITIZEN.” That’s all they need to say. But they don’t.
THEY ARE SUBSTITUTING A GUN PROBLEM WITH A RACE PROBLEM.
THE PROBLEM? Again, these incidents do NOT occur in Vietnam, nor for that matter, China.
Make no mistake about it, it’s RACIST SCAPEGOATING.
(While mental illness is the other key factor, it’s nonetheless a secondary one since there are crazy paranoid wackos everywhere in the world, particularly in the first world. Yet, this only happens in the US due to the accessibility to guns.)
———————————————————
The Chinese community’s posturing is equally dubious: THEY ARE SUBSTITUTING NATIONALITY FOR ETHNICITY. In fact, they are substituting FORMER nationality for ethnicity. (Wong is a US citizen and has lived here for 28 years, vs a mere 14 years in Vietnam.)
THE PROBLEM? Then they should focus in on Wong’s current nationality (28 years), rather than his former one (14 years). Further, they cannot view themselves as Chinese nor Chinese Americans, but Americans only. Likewise, they must regard Vietnamese Americans simply as Americans as well.
Any type of racial or ethnic delineation, on their part, is problematic—to say the least.
April 9th, 2009 at 8:17 am
The following link may provide some more information about the Nung people in Vietnam:
http://www.vnpeoples.org/Nung/history.htm
The Nung have been in Vietnam for at least a millennium. They originated in China. In 1053 the Nung tribe suffered a massive military defeat. The Nung leader, General Nung Chih Cao, and his descendents fled to Guangning in southern China. Later, in the 13th century, during the Mongol dynasty the Tho and later the Nung moved south into Vietnam and Laos.
April 9th, 2009 at 9:33 am
Mr. Tien Huynh,
Is is safe to assume that he is part of this ancestry since there is no proper documentation to substantiate his lineage?
April 9th, 2009 at 10:22 am
Based on the information obtained by the media, the man’s ethnicity is unclear. He was born in Vietnam and did not speak Vietnamese well. His last name is that of many people of the Nung` minority. Before 1975, we had a Nu`ng Senator named Mr. Voo`ng A Sa’ng, a leader of the Nu`ng people. Now a day, it’s hard to find any race which is still pure except some tribes who live in isolated areas like the Amazon, etc. Nationality is commonly used now for distinguishing people from people. Thus, I would reservedly say that the man is a US citizen of Vietnamese descent of the ethnic minority Nu`ng of Vietnam.
April 9th, 2009 at 11:26 am
I have depended on this site for a brief refreshment from the foolishness of the world because of wisdom that is occasionally dispensed in “comments.” Grandpa and Grandma, monk, contemplative, where are you?
April 9th, 2009 at 11:45 am
Please educate me.
I thought Vietnamese (Kinh) people were also from southern China. Then, we migrated down south to what it is now north Vietnam. We took the middle and south Vietnam from the Cham and the Cambodian people.
April 9th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
“Thus, I would reservedly say that the man is a US citizen of Vietnamese descent of the ethnic minority Nu`ng of Vietnam.”
NOT SO FAST.
I’m sorry, but the Nung of Vietnam don’t speak Chinese. I believe you meant “FORMER Vietnamese NATIONALITY”, for “Vietnamese descent” fundamentally means ANCESTRY and ETHNICITY.
“Now a day, it’s hard to find any race which is still pure except some tribes who live in isolated areas like the Amazon, etc.”
Vietnamese in Hanoi have the most variation in key mtDNA genetic markers. We’re among the oldest people in ALL of Asia. Genetic variation occurs regularly over time. Little variation means a the group is relatively young, just splitting off from another older group.
The “Voong” spelling could also be an error, either in Vietnam or in the US, which Voong’s father simply stuck with. My father came to the US and had the wrong age on his official papers. Officially, he is 3 years younger than his real age. He stuck with it.
Jiverly changed his name from “Voong” to Wong. Suggesting he identified with being Chinese. His ex-wife is Chinese.
They said his first language is Chinese. This means his speaks it at home and thinks in Chinese, since both his English and Vietnamese were bad. No Vietnamese who comes from Vietnam at the age of 13-14 loses the ability to speak Vietnamese forgetting it 28 years later. IMPOSSIBLE. No Nung from Vietnam has Chinese as his first language.
His photo at the top of this page shows the phenotype of the typical Cantonese. I’ve seen tons of Cantonese that look like Jiverly.
EVERYTHING POINTS IN THE DIRECTION OF WONG BEING CHINESE.
—————————————————–
Tien Huynh,
Are you Chinese, 1/2 Chinese? For that would explain everything. Let’s not kid ourselves, no Vietnamese would EVER claim a guy named Voong or Wong as their own, whether he won the Nobel Prize or massacred 13 people, simply because he doesn’t speak the language nor hangs around other Vietnamese. EVERY VIETNAMESE I KNOW READILY DIFFERENTIATES THEMSELVES FROM CHINESE VIETNAMESE. “HE’S NICE, FOR A CHINESE GUY…” IT SAFE TO ASSUME, THE REVERSE IS ALSO TRUE.
“Based on the information obtained by the media, the man’s ethnicity is unclear.”
Only to Chinese and overseas Chinese, who don’t want to face the FACTS. I suggest you directly call up Vietnamese people in Binghamton and ask for yourself.
And FYI , Nung are NOT Kinh. Just loved that you deliberately left that tidbit of info out. Nung, Hmong, etc., are NOT orginally from Vietnam, unlike the Cham and Khmer who are, but who are also NOT Vietnamese. So regardless, JIVERLY VOONG IS NOT VIETNAMESE, just as JIVERLY WONG IS NOT VIETNAMESE.
——————————————————-
Pho 75 WROTE: “I thought Vietnamese (Kinh) people were also from southern China. Then, we migrated down south to what it is now north Vietnam.”
Depends on your time frame. But if you’re talking about the time when the Chinese pushed the Yueh southward, then NO. The “Lac” people of the Red River Delta had been there probably for thousands of years, in breathtakingly high numbers–1 million during the time of Han Dynasty. That’s an enormous population for that time. That’s an extraordinary population density for such a small place, for that time. The Han Chinese invaders came, i.e. General Ma Yuan around 2100 BCE, and called them the “Lac Viet” who now call themselves the “Viet”, or Kinh.
Even some Chinese geneticists think Asia’s origins pass through the Red River Delta area, i.e. THEY CAME FROM US. But it is also a widely accepted theory that some did come south, e.g. Thuc Phan, from what is now southern China and intermingled with the locals. And of course, throughout the millenia of Chinese domination, many more came down and eventually became Vietnamese.
April 9th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
In Iraq, the Shia Arabs, Sunni Arabs, and Kurds all hate each other.
In Vietnam, there are clear divisions between Vietnamese Kinh, Chinese Vietnamese, Khmer, Hmong, etc. Sadly, I routinely hear Vietnamese say derogatory things about all our minority groups in Vietnam, including the Chinese Vietnamese. “Kick ‘em out!”
The same goes for China and Han Chinese, Inner Mongolians, Manchu, Hmong, Zhuang, muslim Hui, blue and green-eyed Persian/Pashtoon like minorities of China, who are technically caucasian, etc.
Feel free to lump people by nationality, but in a debate over ethnic identity, that is over identity itself, you need to watch your sloppy language. This is true in general, even in the US where black people are treated quite differently than everyone else, and even more true in backwards developing countries–LIKE TEN FOLD.
April 9th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
“I have depended on this site for a brief refreshment from the foolishness of the world because of wisdom that is occasionally dispensed in “comments.””
Nothing foolish about the assertion that the media is race baiting. They turned a “gun problem” into a “race problem”. Why do you think that in 2008, the majority of whites still voted GOP?
It’s no accident that we only see white victims and minority criminals on the tele, day in day out. Exceptions are few and are there for plausible deniability. This is why whites vote for Republican.
Apparently, you’re not paying very close attention to what you see and read.
Hint: Whites are the least likely to be victims of violent crime in America. American crime rate is now near historic lows–it was lowest during the Clinton years. 93% of murders committed by blacks is against blacks. Whites do not have the lowest crime rate by any stretch of the imagination.
April 9th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
Speaking of ethnicity, the Nung is the Nung, the Thai is the Thai, the Viet is the Viet, the Tay is the Tay, the Cham is the Cham, etc. But when those people live together for several hundred years and have mixed marriage, it would be hard to distinguish who is from which ethnic group. When we talk about singer Che Linh, or artist Tu Cong Phung, or singer Ngoc Minh, we refer to them as Vietnamese artists, not the Cham or the Thai or the Nung artists.
April 9th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
Tien Huynh, Pho 75 and other writer/reader “friends”: The discussing topic has evolved from human tragedy to gun control to ethnicity/race/citizenship which evokes nationalistic fervor, and now to history. This is where I hope to be able to provide clarification:
Please be more careful with the terms ethnicity, race, country, citizen and history.
History implies “written history” (Su ki’ = ki’ qua chu nghia). Before history is “pre-history” (tien su) which is less believable than history.
Country, such as China, VN, etc. is rather modern term for territory. China was originated in the Yellow river area (Hoang ha) - northern of Yangtze river (Duong tu). VN was formed in the south of Yangtze river.
Ethnicity and race are modern terms to try to distinguish people base on different categories and social convention. There is no such race as Vietnamese (nguoi Viet) or Vietnamese blood (mau Viet) [only blood type A, B, O, AB, ...]
Nguoi Nung is a ethnic/race term. Few hundred or thousand years back, we had no such term “Nu`ng” in history. The minority was commonly referred - written - as “man” (barbarian). The last name Nung of Nung Chih Cao is just a last name. He did not know he belong to “Nung race” because there were no concept of “race” at his time.
No proof to support “The Nung have been in Vietnam for at least a millennium. They originated in China.”! Be careful with what you read from VNese history books/websites!
“Kinh” people is not really VNese people. Kinh implies “kinh thanh” or cosmopolitan - or you can say “main stream VNese
- differentiate with “man” (barbarian)
I don’t think it’s fair to simply accept “Vietnamese (Kinh) people were also from southern China. Then, we migrated down south to what it is now north Vietnam. We took the middle and south Vietnam from the Cham and the Cambodian people.”
You could view VN in a holistic view as:
102 08 ‘ - 109 28′ Dong (East)
8 02′ - 23 23 North (Bac)
329 241 km2
79 827 400 (year 2002)
Anything in that area is VN - including VNese. A group in Southern China (one of the Bach Viet - the term Chinese history refer to a a group of non-China) survived Chinese domination to form a nation which is call VN now took over the territory belong to “the Cham and the Cambodian people.” That originating group (one of the Bach Viet) did not come from one single race (no proof for that) and has been strongly “diluted” since moving south and moving west (Don’t forget the ancient VNese history view expanding VN by moving West - not South: we had “Dong do” (eastern capital) and “Tay do” (Western capital). We never had “Nam do” (Southern history) in ancient VNese history.
History of VN should include “Cham” or the past of Cham because it/they are a part of VN now. Looking back in the past should include them but we have been ignoring that past!
County expands - annexes - other territories. People does not come from one single race (unless your view is religious view) and mixing with other people. So what/who is a Vietnamese? Simply in short that anyone speak VNese is a Vietname (don’t get carry away with passport and citizenship papers
Ly Cong Uan & Nguyen Hue came from different root , past, territories but speak same VNese language therefore both consider themself VNese enough to become kings of VN (I mean in this context)
China-man or VN-man for ‘Jiverly Wong’ - Jiverly Voong - is a social convention which is not clearly defined yet. (We are in the fighting process to define!) Similar to president “Barack Obama” is black or white? He has half black and half white root - so he can be logically viewed as black or white. But base on the current social convention that if you have a little bit of black in you, then you are black! James Bond girl - Halle Berry - has so much “white blood” but they keep calling her black
Can we call someone “chocolate” as race? 
Too little time to write “more better” but hope this help.
April 9th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
Mr. Le Wrote: “The discussing topic has evolved from human tragedy to gun control to ethnicity/race/citizenship which evokes nationalistic fervor, and now to history.”
Actually, this thread was originally about “ethnicity”.
April 9th, 2009 at 5:29 pm
Tien Huynh WROTE: “But when those people live together for several hundred years and have mixed marriage, it would be hard to distinguish who is from which ethnic group.”
So what? Look at Northern Ireland, Iraq, the warlords of Afghanistan, tribal regions of Pakistan, Tibet, Inner Mongolia, 1 Million Koreans in Japan, Jews of Eastern Europe, Hmong in Laos, olive-skinned Muslims of Russia, Inuit of Russia, etc. YOUR POINT IS LESS THAN WORTHLESS.
Besides, some of these people, the Khmer, number 2-8 million depending on the estimate, want to break away as Khmer Krom.
During the War, Chinese were exempt from fighting. This says it all.
BTW, if anyone has any info on the how Saigon officially viewed the Chinese in South Vietnam, how Hanoi viewed the Chinese in N. Vietnam, or how Hanoi viewed the Chinese minority after 1975, please post it. Were they even citizens? There are many places in the world where being born there simply means you’re an illegal alien.
What do we know?
1. In the late 1970’s, Hanoi expelled hundreds of thousands of Chinese for economic sabotage. China cited this maltreatment of the Chinese minority as one of their justifications for attacking Vietnam. BTW, what has been Beijing’s policy in Tibet? Answer: GENOCIDE.
2. Chinese Vietnamese by and large did NOT fight in the war. If you’re NOT with us, then you’re NOT with us. In fact, you might even mean you are against us.
3. Overseas Chinese, who have nothing to do with China, routinely curse Vietnam and Vietnamese for expelling the Chinese boat people. They also say with absolute certainty they won the 1979 War. Pretty funny stuff if you ask me.
Why do I bring up all this stuff? To drive home the point that the Chinese often don’t assimilate, everywhere they go. In particular, in Vietnam, THEY’RE NOT VIETNAMESE.
BTW, are Chinese-Americans Americans? Are Vietnamese-Americans Americans? Are black Americans American? You’re pretty naive is you give a straightforward “Yes”. The media went out it its way to make it abundantly clear that Jiverly Wong was “a Vietnamese immigrant”, even though he’s an American citizen who’s spent twice as much time in the US than he did in Vietnam.
Tien Huynh WROTE: “When we talk about singer Che Linh, or artist Tu Cong Phung, or singer Ngoc Minh, we refer to them as Vietnamese artists, not the Cham or the Thai or the Nung artists.”
You’ve never heard of marketing?
Who’s their target audience? Identifying with the target audience is the smart thing to do. Their fans naturally reciprocate. But do their fans feel the same about respective minority groups they belong to?
Whites love Michael Jordan. Do whites love black people? I have Arab friends who idolize Einstein. They tend not to like Jews. But I don’t have to tell you that.
So what’s your point?
Non Sequitur. :- )
——————————–
Lastly, why is it so important to you and a few others here that Jiverly Wong is of “Vietnamese descent”? Jiverly Wong is an American citizen, and that should be the end of the story.
You are brazenly adopting the media’s thoroughly dubious posture: Racist scapegoat the Vietnamese.
Like I said earlier: Any attempt to delineate race and ethnicity by both the American (WHITE) media and the Chinese is problematic–to say the least.
If his nationality is important, then Jiverly Wong is an American.
If his ethnicity is important, then he is Chinese.
None of these facts, and yes they are FACTS, are germane as to why he did what he did. There are no shootings this nature in Vietnam, nor in China. There is no pattern of Vietnamese nor Chinese mass shootings in America. One idiot makes not a pattern. For the Vietnamese, it’s beyond insulting since Wong is not even ethnically Vietnamese to begin with.
You keep insisting he’s Vietnamese because of “centuries” of intermarriage makes it impossible to tell. This pretty much says it all about you.
Let me spell it out: When a Chinese guy does something bad, then in Vietnam it is impossible to tell one’s ethnicity, which naturally makes him Vietnamese. But in America, he’s clearly Vietnamese, which is easy to tell, since even after 28 years, he has not managed to assimilated. Never mind that he NEVER assimilated in Vietnam either. HE NEVER LEARNED TO SPEAK VIETNAMESE FOR GOD’S SAKE.
With all due respect, you can’t have it both ways. Nor can you be Vietnamese and not participate in the war.
April 9th, 2009 at 5:29 pm
@JumpinJehosephat :
you said: Lets be careful with language.
Were you referring to the expression, “willy nilly”?
According to Merrian-Webster dictionary: it means 1) by compulsion: without choice or 2) in a haphazard or spontaneous manner - meaning arbitrary.
Clean blog entry…
April 9th, 2009 at 5:32 pm
Good going brother JumpinJehosephat! Good entries.
April 9th, 2009 at 5:36 pm
Pho 75,
“General Ma Yuan around 2100 BCE, and called them the “Lac Viet” who now call themselves the “Viet”, or Kinh.”
Actually I meant ~100 BCE, or about 2100 years ago.
—————————
On a different note, there’s a lot that archaeologists and anthropologists don’t know about the world’s coastlines during the ice age. Sea levels were much lower than they are not. Much of the Mediterranean was likely inhabited. There were land bridges in many places throughout the world. Vietnam was certainly no different. A lot of early human settlements are simply underwater.
In India, archaeologists have discovered what they believe is a submerged civilization much older than any thing in the MidEast, IIRC. Though there is no consensus on this, as far as I know.
April 9th, 2009 at 5:48 pm
Li’l Saigon Man WROTE:
“you said: Lets be careful with language.
Were you referring to the expression, “willy nilly”?”
No, I believe I meant that many Chinese do assimilate becoming Vietnamese over the centuries, thus to make a blanket statement that they don’t is wrong.
Having said that, many also DON’T assimilate, which is why Cholon still exists. Heck, there are tons of very old Chinatowns throughout the world.
I have no idea what percentage assimilates, or don’t. All I know is the Chinatowns are there–ALL OVER THE WORLD.
April 9th, 2009 at 9:35 pm
@JumpinJehosephat:
I said: There are people out there…they
I did not state the majority or minority. You misread the paragraph.
April 9th, 2009 at 9:44 pm
Just wonderin’…
Can anyone distinguish between the Hutus and Tutsis of Rwanda?
http://ve.kalipedia.com/kalipediamedia/geografia/media/200704/17/geogeneral/20070417klpgeogra_55_Ies_SCO.jpg
—Hutus
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Video/080219/nn_fletcher_rwanda_080219.300w.jpg
—Tutsis
Or how about between Kurds, Iraqi Shia Arabs, and Iraqi Sunni Arabs?
http://eldib.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/img_2661.jpg
—-Kurds
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2007/12/i-raqi-sunni-and-shia-join-in-historic.html
—Iraqi Shia and Sunni in rare peace march
Or can you distinguish these groups from Iranian Shia, Turks, Afghans?
Middle Eastern Jews (those native to the Mideast) and Palestinians?
Northern Irish Catholics and Northern Irish Protestants?
But they can. And that is why they’re always killing each other.
April 9th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
@ Lil Saigon Man,
Well, beg to differ.
I’m pretty sure I might have been addressing your statements in general. You did post a lot. I’d have to go back and reread all of them–which I’m not gonna do. Often times I respond to more than I quote, which can lead to confusion. For that, I plead guilty. But that only.
Anyway, I thought your stuff on Charles Ng and so on and how Viets supposedly “don’t kill people for nothing” was a bit way of the mark–to put kindly. Trust me on this, it may not happen next year, but maybe in 5-10 years from now some crazy Vietnamese guy named Nguyen, Tran, or Le will do something this.
It’s clear that Jiverly Wong was immitating Cho-Seung Hui with his manifesto being sent to the local media in Binghamton: “I am Jiverly Wong killing the people.”
—————————
For me, this is about guns and mental illness. (That’s what all the credible experts say btw. But from a purely pragmatic standpoint, it’s really about guns, since there are crazy people all over the advanced industrialized countries of the world who play violent video games and watch violent movies, but this sort of thing really only happens in America. It rarely happens in other countries, if at all. Why? They have strict gun control.)
And anyone who veers away from the real issues is simply up to no good, and invariably trips all over themselves:
The US Media: Wants it to be about race, through the proxy of nationality. But then why is his former nationality more important than his current? And are they suggesting that this sort of thing is common amongst Vietnamese in Vietnam and in America? Laughable.
The Chinese: Want it to be about ethnicity through the proxy of nationality, i.e. Wong is Vietnamese since you can’t tell due to his supposed assimilation into Vietnamese culture for 14 years. But then why isn’t he American since he been immerse in American culture for 28 years–twice as long. He speaks both choppy English and choppy Vietnamese, which means he never assimilated to either culture. His mother tongue is Chinese, his ex-wife is Chinese, his ethnicity is Chinese… 28 years in US vs 14 in Vietnam… So why is he Vietnamese? Further, then why are Chinese Americans Chinese? If Wong, who lived in Vietnam for 14 years, is Vietnamese, then by the same reasoning they, the Chinese in the US, are American (i.e. the place where you reside overwhelms you and assimilate you not matter what). Likewise, Vietnamese Americans are American, and Wong, being Vietnamese and living in America, must be American too.
See what I mean? This logic is quite suspect. In fact, it devours itself.
If you go by nationality, Wong is an American. If you go by ethnicity, Wong is Chinese.
April 9th, 2009 at 11:22 pm
JumpinJehosephat:
It would be silly to say that race determines everyone’s action. When a topic is raised, it is the norm that is discussed based on given facts. Point being is that a typical Viet killer does things differently than the rest, and that was my only contention. And I was correct too…
April 10th, 2009 at 12:02 am
Identifying a person to an ethnic group can be done easily if the group isolates itself in an isolated area. But when members of the group come out of its territory and mingle with other members of other groups, the distinction of the groups becomes blur. For example, a person from China came to Vietnam to live among the locals, after some generations, his descendants would become more of Vietnamese and less Chinese. At some time, his descendants would become Vietnamese and have no concerns for their Chinese root. Then the local Vietnamese would perceive these people of Chinese descent as Vietnamese. This was the case of King Ho qui Ly and King Nguyen Hue. No “pure” Vietnamese would call these two people Chinese. Before 75, there were some Vietnamese generals in the RVN Army, e.g., General Lam Quang Tho, General Lam Quang Thi, whose parents were Chinese. By the same token, there was a Nung person who left his home town in Northern Vietnam near China border to come down to Saigon to live there and eventually became a Vietnamese Senator. The Vietnamese Senator of the Nung descent was Mr. Voong A Sang.
April 14th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
Is Jackie Chan Vietnamese or Russel Wong Vietnamese?
April 17th, 2009 at 7:02 am
90% of the weapons used by Mexican outlaws came from the US:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-obama-mexico17-2009apr17,0,7867926.story
President Calderon of Mexico said, “I hope to God these weapons that today are sold in the U.S. and used in Mexico are not one day also used against U.S. society and U.S. authorities the way they are here in our country.”
Well, it’s too late!
April 18th, 2009 at 7:47 pm
That was another evidence of “Nha giau dut tay bang an may do ruot” (A rich man with a cut on his fingers acts like a poor man with a damaged intestine). Americans always act like moral beings who fall victims to people of less civilization, but the truth is …
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